The Church Lady Social Media Troll is a menace to society — driving people from the Church and endangering the vulnerable. PLUS: 5 Steps to take if you have been cyberbullied.
Zina, I've been meaning to leave a comment all week. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. You are handling it with grace and charity (not a big surprise!) but I know that the sting of this type of thing hurts regardless. Words matter, and can inflict pain, and when people don't acknowledge that or care enough to let kindness lead their words, it's very disappointing. As I've journeyed through life, I have come to see that when adults behave badly, it's because of their own deep inner insecurities. It doesn't excuse anything or take the hurt feelings away, but it helps to remind myself of that. I hope it helps you, too.
Hi, Tiffany! Thank you so much for replying. As a fellow dancer I was so honored that you saw my post. I appreciate your comments and encouragement.
Yes, I have a volunteer job working with young people who have been traumatized and the common saying is, “Hurt people hurt people.” They lash out because that’s in their power — sometimes the only power they think they have. Their victims are often the ones who have cared enough to stay near them or who have no choice. They take their frustrations out on the people who are probably capable of helping them through their hard times.
I think this is a similar psychological dynamic. I know for sure that she is insecure, and I had treated her with absolute kindness because of that. However, abuse is never okay. I am very disappointed in her. I knew she could say hurtful things, but I didn’t think she could sink this low. Nevertheless, I believe that all things are possible with prayer so that’s what I am doing.
Well, as I think about this more… I don’t think she’s a happy person. She’s probably lonely and wondering why people don’t like her. I actually tried to be a good friend to her. The betrayal is awful. Self-righteous, yes a bit. More sad than pure awful.
"Liking" the post out of solidarity (and appreciation for your courage and for the efforts to help educate/provide resources). I'm deeply dismayed by this account of how you have been treated.
Thank you, Emily. The sad thing is that, from the private messages, I’m not the only one to have had to deal with this. There are awful stories out there. It’s sad but I suppose it’s part of being human and living in a world filled with fallen people (that includes me).
Zina, thanks for a lovely post. I was left scratching my head at these off the wall accusations! So bazaar and unfounded. Nice job walking the fine line of telling truth with charity. As a female writer, it’s helpful to be forewarned as to what I might encounter and to have a plan in place.
Hi, Rachel! So glad to see you here! Yeah. This was a bit weird in a terrible awful way. When you put yourself out there as a writer you have to be prepared for a lot of “left field” reactions. It’s sad when it’s someone whom you had thought of as a friend.
I am so sorry to hear you have been attacked like this, but thank you for speaking out and helping those who may struggle in similar situations. I did not fail to see the irony-your lovely essay referenced David dancing before the ark and yet, she did not see her behavior mimicked David’s wife. As you note, it definitely shows her insecurities-and I venture to guess, deep wounds-though that in no way makes it okay for her to hurt others. Praying for healing. Keep writing and praising the Lord in your body! Thank you for sharing “The Beauty of Things” You are an inspiration!
Thank you so much for reading this and being such a wonderful sounding board... with so many things. I was so mad when I read the comment, but I am glad I didn't react immediately and had you and some good friends to process this with first.
Also, this is not just a church thing. We are all fallen human beings and there is a type of person, regardless of group, who thrives on bullying people online. If she were honest with herself, she would realize that social media is a near occasion of sin for her. That being said, she is not helping the Church’s cause of evangelization. I know it hurts worse when it comes from someone within the Church.
I was bullied throughout school, but especially in middle school. The worst damage came from not talking about it. I wanted to save my parents some stress following a cross country move, new jobs, and my older brother joining the army. I instead I became depressed and over several years, it became harder to hide. My first year of teaching was also abusive and it didn’t help that others were being publicly humiliated too. At least that time I could leave at the end of the school year, which I did despite not having another job lined up. This was at a time when we really needed us both to work. That teaching job was super stressful, but I also talked about what was going on and had a plan to get out of that situation. I had also learned that talking about the bullying gave me power, not the bully. Try to distance yourself from that woman’s words. They were not about you. I truly know that is so hard to do and may take years.
Everything about your writing tells me that your family comes first. It says that you need community, as we all do.
I am so sorry this happened to you. We are all so fallen. The impulse is to stay silent is interesting — how we internalize this as young kids too. And the most savvy abusers expect (and perhaps count on) that. And to know that mean behavior happens in the workplace… not a surprise. I suppose this is how we learn about the world and become more sensitive to our own human natures.
I am so grateful for your presence in comments here and elsewhere. You are a blessing.
Zina, as a cis-gendered non-birthing person, (and your MFA class pal), I need to carefully check my privilege before making such a statement, [insert appropriate tribal land acknowledgment] but here goes. Your interlocutor reminds us that there is something really sad about a grown woman whose world view is somehow stuck in eighth grade.
Thank you, Chris. I have to add that my 15yo said, “Do you want me to bully her back? Teenagers are probably better at this than she is.” Bless her… I said no! (She was kidding anyway.) But seriously… this is alarming, scrupulous behavior.
Well done, Zina, for sharing this disturbing story not as a way to shame and blame (which would be justified!) but to demonstrate how judgment, ignorance and intolerance are the real threats expressed here. The world is a brighter, better place because of you and all you do and you are an outstanding role model for your family and for all of us!
Thank you, Shannon! I forget that some of my IRL friends and neighbors can see my writing too LOL. I hope you are having a good weekend. I miss our room parent days!
Thank you so much for reading and being here in comments. I thought I could at least offer something constructive from this! And I think my 15 year old has the link to this post so she is seeing all the supportive comments. As a high schooler she is likely to encounter this stuff - if not now then in the future.
Sorry to hear you have to go through this. Especially this close to Christmas. Online or not, it's never pleasant to have to deal with such people. It reminds me of one person I had to deal with (also a woman, which I only mention because of the theme here, and a recent convert to Protestantism) who - to put it a certain way - proved herself wholly incapable of understanding the function of the character of Kichijirō in Shusaku Endo's masterpiece, Silence.
This woman doesn't sound very Catholic to me. What always sets Catholics apart for me (among other things) is the possession of a "baroque soul," or Interior Castle a la St. Teresa of Avila. There is nothing baroque about the profile of the soul presented here; I sense no interior castle. It's one of our strengths and American Catholics, from my observation, have struggled to maintain it in a majority Protestant and Mammonian culture that would sacrifice everything "baroque" in favor of the salesman's skin-deep, veneer identity in Arthur Miller's play. While I don't want to make what you've written about something else, this story is a reminder that for many Catholics the Protestantization of the Church is not just a theological abstraction but a real-world factor that can and will surface in daily life when we least expect it. (One that, if successfully negated, would considerably heal the current rift between the "nicey nice" Catholics and the trad Catholics; more on that another time, perhaps)
One of the beauties of the "baroque soul" is a closeness to the arts and to the fine things in life (including a forgotten intellectual Catholic tradition only now being rediscovered in English by great publishers like Arouca Press); dancing is one such art as any Irish Catholic (doing the ceili) or Polish Catholic (dancing the polka) can attest. As for belly dancing; while it is understandably not everyone's cup of tea and questioning its place in culture is valid in other instances (the Greeks, for instance, inherited belly dancing from the Muslim Turk occupiers when they enslaved their Christian subjects for sex (if women) and as psychologically abused soldier-slaves (if men)) it is also a somewhat misunderstood dance. Many do it for cardiovascular benefits, for instance, and not at all for the more "stereotypical" reasons. (I'm sure I don't need to tell you all this) It makes logical sense that a belly dancing class would be a good place to meet other women; can't say I know many men who know how to belly dance. 😅
In case I forget closer to the day - I haven't used the phrase "killing time" in years now - Merry Christmas, Zina! I'm glad you're not letting the cyberbullies bring you down. No petty person should be allowed to sabotage the joy we feel for the birth of Our Savior.
I think you and I need to collaborate on some essay on the "baroque soul"! This is a fascinating idea. I am sorry you've had to deal with trolls, too. Honestly, in private messages and comments I had a string of awfulness... all of them were men (or they were men from what I could tell - you never know completely on the internet).
I've said this before and I'll say it again... I am glad you are back on Substack. I missed you. It's wonderful to see you in comments. I've always appreciated your intelligence.
Forgot to mention, thanks for the kind words! My normal posts will resume again in January, so not long now! Plus I'm starting other newsletters for my more niche topics. More on that soon! Got a lot of great content in the works, the kind that (I hope) will make everyone's book list Texan in enormity. 😁
A great idea! (The essay collaboration, that is) Let's chat about it some more by email.
Actually the person I mention was someone I knew in real life, though someone with similar issues to those of the average troll. But it's a nice reminder that for every ugly way they make themselves manifest online, they are people with real world problems. The problems are real; sadly, however, they take these things out on people who haven't warranted that criticism, thereby alienating people from coming together over serious, damaging societal phenomena. (It reminds me of a South Park episode where, to discover a possible Chinese conspiracy to take over the world, two of the kids dress up in stereotypical Chinese garb and try to uncover information at the nearest PF Changs 😅 Ironically, the episode overlooked that the Chinese Communist Party does seek world domination - all Communist ideology seeks this in some form - but that's yet another story for another time)
I am so sorry this happened to you. David danced naked in the bible. Jesus welcomed all to his table, prostitutes, tax payers, the sick, the blind. And that dance was absolutely gorgeous. I am 70 years old and just retired after 40 years of teaching. I have seen so much cyberbullying from parents. I had a mother come after me and I said we need to go to the principal because I don't like how you are talking to me.
That lady is not Christian and it is why so many leave the church. My prayers and blessings go to you. Love ya, 'Berta
Thank you, Roberta. Yes, David indeed danced in the Bible. I was so happy to find that Footloose quote about David and dancing and use that because I felt like it was a quirky cult classic that was also very appropriate. The choreography for the YouTube video is a lot more complex, but we had similar moves that are just beautiful. I just wanted to show why someone would want to belly dance — it’s not just about bearing skin and attracting men.
I am so sorry you were bullied by parents, but I absolutely see how that would happen. I think parents have gotten more brazen over the years. I would like to think that I am a much nicer parent than that!
Don't waste another thought on this unchristian troll. Leave her blocked.
I’ve actually decided that my new wardrobe aesthetic for 2025 should be *hooker with a heart of gold*. 😂
Zina, I've been meaning to leave a comment all week. I'm so sorry that this happened to you. You are handling it with grace and charity (not a big surprise!) but I know that the sting of this type of thing hurts regardless. Words matter, and can inflict pain, and when people don't acknowledge that or care enough to let kindness lead their words, it's very disappointing. As I've journeyed through life, I have come to see that when adults behave badly, it's because of their own deep inner insecurities. It doesn't excuse anything or take the hurt feelings away, but it helps to remind myself of that. I hope it helps you, too.
Hi, Tiffany! Thank you so much for replying. As a fellow dancer I was so honored that you saw my post. I appreciate your comments and encouragement.
Yes, I have a volunteer job working with young people who have been traumatized and the common saying is, “Hurt people hurt people.” They lash out because that’s in their power — sometimes the only power they think they have. Their victims are often the ones who have cared enough to stay near them or who have no choice. They take their frustrations out on the people who are probably capable of helping them through their hard times.
I think this is a similar psychological dynamic. I know for sure that she is insecure, and I had treated her with absolute kindness because of that. However, abuse is never okay. I am very disappointed in her. I knew she could say hurtful things, but I didn’t think she could sink this low. Nevertheless, I believe that all things are possible with prayer so that’s what I am doing.
Glad to be here, Zina. What an awful self-righteous person to do this.
Well, as I think about this more… I don’t think she’s a happy person. She’s probably lonely and wondering why people don’t like her. I actually tried to be a good friend to her. The betrayal is awful. Self-righteous, yes a bit. More sad than pure awful.
"Liking" the post out of solidarity (and appreciation for your courage and for the efforts to help educate/provide resources). I'm deeply dismayed by this account of how you have been treated.
Thank you so much, Erika!
Hey Zina, sorry you had to deal with this!
Thank you, Emily. The sad thing is that, from the private messages, I’m not the only one to have had to deal with this. There are awful stories out there. It’s sad but I suppose it’s part of being human and living in a world filled with fallen people (that includes me).
Zina, thanks for a lovely post. I was left scratching my head at these off the wall accusations! So bazaar and unfounded. Nice job walking the fine line of telling truth with charity. As a female writer, it’s helpful to be forewarned as to what I might encounter and to have a plan in place.
Hi, Rachel! So glad to see you here! Yeah. This was a bit weird in a terrible awful way. When you put yourself out there as a writer you have to be prepared for a lot of “left field” reactions. It’s sad when it’s someone whom you had thought of as a friend.
I am so sorry to hear you have been attacked like this, but thank you for speaking out and helping those who may struggle in similar situations. I did not fail to see the irony-your lovely essay referenced David dancing before the ark and yet, she did not see her behavior mimicked David’s wife. As you note, it definitely shows her insecurities-and I venture to guess, deep wounds-though that in no way makes it okay for her to hurt others. Praying for healing. Keep writing and praising the Lord in your body! Thank you for sharing “The Beauty of Things” You are an inspiration!
Thank you so much, Theresa. This means so much, and I am so happy to have you here. And I appreciate the prayers more than you can possibly imagine!
Thanks for the tips, too! It’s good to have a clear path when the initial reaction to something like this can be akin to a panic attack.
Thank you so much for reading this and being such a wonderful sounding board... with so many things. I was so mad when I read the comment, but I am glad I didn't react immediately and had you and some good friends to process this with first.
My pleasure! It’s no fun when you get something like this and then knee-jerk it alone.
Also, this is not just a church thing. We are all fallen human beings and there is a type of person, regardless of group, who thrives on bullying people online. If she were honest with herself, she would realize that social media is a near occasion of sin for her. That being said, she is not helping the Church’s cause of evangelization. I know it hurts worse when it comes from someone within the Church.
I was bullied throughout school, but especially in middle school. The worst damage came from not talking about it. I wanted to save my parents some stress following a cross country move, new jobs, and my older brother joining the army. I instead I became depressed and over several years, it became harder to hide. My first year of teaching was also abusive and it didn’t help that others were being publicly humiliated too. At least that time I could leave at the end of the school year, which I did despite not having another job lined up. This was at a time when we really needed us both to work. That teaching job was super stressful, but I also talked about what was going on and had a plan to get out of that situation. I had also learned that talking about the bullying gave me power, not the bully. Try to distance yourself from that woman’s words. They were not about you. I truly know that is so hard to do and may take years.
Everything about your writing tells me that your family comes first. It says that you need community, as we all do.
I am so sorry this happened to you. We are all so fallen. The impulse is to stay silent is interesting — how we internalize this as young kids too. And the most savvy abusers expect (and perhaps count on) that. And to know that mean behavior happens in the workplace… not a surprise. I suppose this is how we learn about the world and become more sensitive to our own human natures.
I am so grateful for your presence in comments here and elsewhere. You are a blessing.
Zina, as a cis-gendered non-birthing person, (and your MFA class pal), I need to carefully check my privilege before making such a statement, [insert appropriate tribal land acknowledgment] but here goes. Your interlocutor reminds us that there is something really sad about a grown woman whose world view is somehow stuck in eighth grade.
Also, I love that you read my Substack. I am so glad you’re my classmate!
Thank you, Chris. I have to add that my 15yo said, “Do you want me to bully her back? Teenagers are probably better at this than she is.” Bless her… I said no! (She was kidding anyway.) But seriously… this is alarming, scrupulous behavior.
Well done, Zina, for sharing this disturbing story not as a way to shame and blame (which would be justified!) but to demonstrate how judgment, ignorance and intolerance are the real threats expressed here. The world is a brighter, better place because of you and all you do and you are an outstanding role model for your family and for all of us!
Thank you, Shannon! I forget that some of my IRL friends and neighbors can see my writing too LOL. I hope you are having a good weekend. I miss our room parent days!
Thank you for sharing your vulnerability and offering tips to disengage when a conversation online is no longer working for you.
Thank you so much for reading and being here in comments. I thought I could at least offer something constructive from this! And I think my 15 year old has the link to this post so she is seeing all the supportive comments. As a high schooler she is likely to encounter this stuff - if not now then in the future.
I admire your determination to write through this, Zina. Some bullies only understand a punch back. I’m glad to be part of your community.
Thank you so much, Josh. I appreciate your good heart and thoughtful feedback. You are such a wonderful friend. Maraming salamat!
Sorry to hear you have to go through this. Especially this close to Christmas. Online or not, it's never pleasant to have to deal with such people. It reminds me of one person I had to deal with (also a woman, which I only mention because of the theme here, and a recent convert to Protestantism) who - to put it a certain way - proved herself wholly incapable of understanding the function of the character of Kichijirō in Shusaku Endo's masterpiece, Silence.
This woman doesn't sound very Catholic to me. What always sets Catholics apart for me (among other things) is the possession of a "baroque soul," or Interior Castle a la St. Teresa of Avila. There is nothing baroque about the profile of the soul presented here; I sense no interior castle. It's one of our strengths and American Catholics, from my observation, have struggled to maintain it in a majority Protestant and Mammonian culture that would sacrifice everything "baroque" in favor of the salesman's skin-deep, veneer identity in Arthur Miller's play. While I don't want to make what you've written about something else, this story is a reminder that for many Catholics the Protestantization of the Church is not just a theological abstraction but a real-world factor that can and will surface in daily life when we least expect it. (One that, if successfully negated, would considerably heal the current rift between the "nicey nice" Catholics and the trad Catholics; more on that another time, perhaps)
One of the beauties of the "baroque soul" is a closeness to the arts and to the fine things in life (including a forgotten intellectual Catholic tradition only now being rediscovered in English by great publishers like Arouca Press); dancing is one such art as any Irish Catholic (doing the ceili) or Polish Catholic (dancing the polka) can attest. As for belly dancing; while it is understandably not everyone's cup of tea and questioning its place in culture is valid in other instances (the Greeks, for instance, inherited belly dancing from the Muslim Turk occupiers when they enslaved their Christian subjects for sex (if women) and as psychologically abused soldier-slaves (if men)) it is also a somewhat misunderstood dance. Many do it for cardiovascular benefits, for instance, and not at all for the more "stereotypical" reasons. (I'm sure I don't need to tell you all this) It makes logical sense that a belly dancing class would be a good place to meet other women; can't say I know many men who know how to belly dance. 😅
In case I forget closer to the day - I haven't used the phrase "killing time" in years now - Merry Christmas, Zina! I'm glad you're not letting the cyberbullies bring you down. No petty person should be allowed to sabotage the joy we feel for the birth of Our Savior.
I think you and I need to collaborate on some essay on the "baroque soul"! This is a fascinating idea. I am sorry you've had to deal with trolls, too. Honestly, in private messages and comments I had a string of awfulness... all of them were men (or they were men from what I could tell - you never know completely on the internet).
I've said this before and I'll say it again... I am glad you are back on Substack. I missed you. It's wonderful to see you in comments. I've always appreciated your intelligence.
Forgot to mention, thanks for the kind words! My normal posts will resume again in January, so not long now! Plus I'm starting other newsletters for my more niche topics. More on that soon! Got a lot of great content in the works, the kind that (I hope) will make everyone's book list Texan in enormity. 😁
A great idea! (The essay collaboration, that is) Let's chat about it some more by email.
Actually the person I mention was someone I knew in real life, though someone with similar issues to those of the average troll. But it's a nice reminder that for every ugly way they make themselves manifest online, they are people with real world problems. The problems are real; sadly, however, they take these things out on people who haven't warranted that criticism, thereby alienating people from coming together over serious, damaging societal phenomena. (It reminds me of a South Park episode where, to discover a possible Chinese conspiracy to take over the world, two of the kids dress up in stereotypical Chinese garb and try to uncover information at the nearest PF Changs 😅 Ironically, the episode overlooked that the Chinese Communist Party does seek world domination - all Communist ideology seeks this in some form - but that's yet another story for another time)
I am so sorry this happened to you. David danced naked in the bible. Jesus welcomed all to his table, prostitutes, tax payers, the sick, the blind. And that dance was absolutely gorgeous. I am 70 years old and just retired after 40 years of teaching. I have seen so much cyberbullying from parents. I had a mother come after me and I said we need to go to the principal because I don't like how you are talking to me.
That lady is not Christian and it is why so many leave the church. My prayers and blessings go to you. Love ya, 'Berta
Thank you, Roberta. Yes, David indeed danced in the Bible. I was so happy to find that Footloose quote about David and dancing and use that because I felt like it was a quirky cult classic that was also very appropriate. The choreography for the YouTube video is a lot more complex, but we had similar moves that are just beautiful. I just wanted to show why someone would want to belly dance — it’s not just about bearing skin and attracting men.
I am so sorry you were bullied by parents, but I absolutely see how that would happen. I think parents have gotten more brazen over the years. I would like to think that I am a much nicer parent than that!
God bless you! And thank you so much for reading.