Just discovered your substack and I love what you're doing. I got my B.A. in philosophy from St. Thomas in Houston, where I had the life-changing experience of taking two semesters of Latin poetry. That freshman year must have been sometime during the Jurassic period. One semester of Catullus and a semester of Horace from Fr. Owen Lee taught me almost everything I was to know about poetry for most of my adult life. I left poetry behind while learning philosophy. Now, I'm trying to go back and recover a lot of lost ground in literature and poetry, but not in Latin, since the Latin-speaking part of my brain atrophied long ago. I look forward to following your journey.
Thank you so much. I am glad you found my Substack as well! I think this MFA program at UST is one of the best (if not THE best) programs in formal verse. It is so easy to lose fluency in a language, but having learned it at all helps understand English on another level. Glad to see you here. I hope you like some of my other writing.
Your post resonated with me. I, too, struggle with feeling that I've "wasted my life." Thanks for making me feel a little less alone.
Since you asked about whether we're doing community read-along programs, yes. My whole Substack is essentially premised on being a read-along. I've done Plato's Republic, and am focusing on the book of Deuteronomy this year.
Thank you for this wonderful piece Zina. Your courage is inspiring me to be a more honest writer and I so appreciate that. I was going to write about national poetry month for my next article but this story has caused me to pivot and cover something a bit more personal. By the way, your bit about pursuing Latin in your adult life despite being told as a child women have no reason to learn it reminds me of one of my favorite fictional characters, Dagny, from Atlas Shrugged. Here's the line from Atlas Shrugged I thought of when I read your anecdote: “She was fifteen when it occurred to her for the first time that women did not run railroads and that people might object. To hell with that, she thought- and never worried about it again.”
Nice quote! It’s funny how road blocks and gatekeepers only succeed in creating the drive to pursue knowledge. And I am looking forward to your next post! ❤️ Z
I don't think we are made to learn by ourselves. I am only lately experiencing the joy of learning with others, after earning a B.A. in English (and Studio Arts) and an M.A. in English (emphasis writing)—where nobody discussed anything outside of class— and after I have read voraciously my whole life. But I am finally enjoying good conversations about literary works in a Well Read Moms group. The discussion during last Saturday's meeting went on for three hours and we could barely get ourselves to stop.
Well Read Mom is wonderful. I attended their panel at the CIC in Dallas, and I spoke quite a bit with Marcie. Unfortunately I am already in some heavy duty book clubs where the books often overlap with WRM. Much of my other time is spent learning special education and disability law and philosophy for my advocacy work. Also, I have my masters studies at the University of St. Thomas in Houston. It is… a bit much but it makes me happy. Especially my MFA studies. It is the most expensive thing I have done for myself thus far, but it has been one of the most rewarding and enriching. Gives me a break from raising my five kids.
I get a panicky feeling when I read about all the things you are involved in! It all sounds great. But take it easy. Look at me. I didn't get to do a lot of things when I was raising my kids by myself after a divorce that I am doing now. You can drive yourself crazy by taking on too much, even if everything is worth doing. Take the long view!
I have definitely stepped back. I put my SESP on hold, and I quit the PTO in January. I think I manage things fairly well. Just had an IEP meeting for one of my kids. It went well but I had to make so many points and document so many things. If ever things get bad I have no qualms about dropping activities. And Dr. Wilson at the MFA is kept in the loop. If things get to emergency levels with the kids he knows I will take a semester off. The long view, however, takes into consideration the value of having a Masters degree.
Thank you so much for sharing. There is nothing more comforting than the company of readers. Substack and the various reads I’m doing with fellow travelers absolutely lifts me up especially through the long, dark winter.
Kathleen, I am so happy you have found your people. As troubling as technology can be, if used with intentionality it is so powerful and a benefit to society. I appreciate your comment so much. May all of us learn together and from each other! ❤️ Zina
Zina, this essay means so much! Substack really has been a life boat for me during a time of isolation, as well. I'm honored to count you as part of my community.
Joshua, you have been one of the biggest blessing of Substack. Your friendship was one of the first developed out of all the “strangers” out there. You were the first to invite me to write a guest post. You were one of the first to recommend my Substack to people I didn’t know. Your generosity, intelligence, and diligence shine through your writing on this platform. Thank you. 🙏 If not for your encouragement I don’t know if I would have persisted.
That means a lot, Zina. I'm really glad we connected here -- and stay connected through our writing. Now back to prepping for Friday's read-along essay :)
Thank you for sharing so well the backstory of your pursuit of knowledge. It seems your challenges have been transformed into motivation, and are bearing fruit. That is so awesome - I'm happy for you!
Gratefully, my dad was raised by women, so he was never bothered that my brain was analytical *and* creative. Parents do their best with the tools they have.
Thank you for opening my mind up to the existence of free study groups online! I didn't realize they were becoming more popular -- a hope that we can keep arts and culture education alive despite the patterns unfolding now in schools of all levels.
Oh, my dad had lots of issues I never really understood. He passed away, and I’ve forgiven him. I just wondered if I would have been happier and more successful if I were allowed to study what I wanted. My dad was my dad. Shrug. My educational journey continues to be non-typical.
You may be interested in a few Catholic specific study groups and book clubs. Albertus Magnus and Well Read Mom (you don’t have to be a mom). AM is technically free, but easier to get into classes if you pay. There is a not-too-bad fee for WRM.
Zina, love this and it is one of the reasons I love this community. There is so much to learn here and while I do enjoy learning on my own, it is better with others who are on a similar journey. I signed up for the website you mentioned and I am receiving their emails now. I don't have the bandwidth at the moment to sign up for one of their courses but am hoping that after I retire from the Navy I will have some more time on my hands. I am also in the very beginning stages of thinking through and planning out a read-along of The Iliad and The Odyssey for next year. I am not an expert on either but sometimes we learn by teaching!
The Iliad and Odyssey project sounds great! And there are so many translations to choose from. I did a compare and contrast … now that I think of it most of it may be in my Drafts folder. I really highly recommend the Catherine Project, but I may have been particularly fortunate in what instructors and peer group I got. As always, learning in community can differ with cohort. You are such a wonderful reader and writer. Glad to know you through this Society of Perpetual Students on Substack. ❤️ Zina
Thanks, Zina, for this encouraging post. I understand the frustration of trying to learn on one’s own. Indeed, that’s a big part of the life of a scholar. That’s why I appreciate what is going on in this space. The gatekeepers of the ivory tower are, indeed, merciless, though it’s really more of an ingrained system than any individual will that is responsible for the mercilessness, which makes it difficult to reform. I know this, frankly, as one of the “gatekeepers,” though a low-level one. I try to make up for this by telling my graduate students that intelligent people outside the academy will be interested in our work if we present it to them in an encouraging way: we don’t have to dumb it down or make compromises. Simon, Josh, you, and many others are proving this every day here. Well done. (Now if only I could demonstrate to the university that what I do here is more valuable than what I publish in academic journals, because people actually read it and respond to it.)
John, your Substack is one of my favorites, and I am so happy to have met you on this platform. Jay, Mary, Eleanor, Simon, David, Matthew, Joshua… I learn so much from all of you. My friend who is a university professor has similar frustrations with the higher education system. I think we are coming to a reckoning as a society with liberal arts programs downsizing or facing complete elimination. Your work here is valuable, but I wonder if it competes somehow with what our college system is turning into.
Replying to Simon as I am doing his Mantel read along. In a word, I love it. I read so many Substacks and books that inform my own Substack posting that I had to choose one book.
The book I know best and would love to discuss with others is Swann's Way. I'm not qualified to lead it on my own, but I may try to find someone who is.
David, I haven't read Proust but all 7 volumes are on my shelf and waiting to be opened. I hope to get to them in the next year or so but I think they may require some expert guidance. I am very excited to read them however, having heard so much good about them.
Just discovered your substack and I love what you're doing. I got my B.A. in philosophy from St. Thomas in Houston, where I had the life-changing experience of taking two semesters of Latin poetry. That freshman year must have been sometime during the Jurassic period. One semester of Catullus and a semester of Horace from Fr. Owen Lee taught me almost everything I was to know about poetry for most of my adult life. I left poetry behind while learning philosophy. Now, I'm trying to go back and recover a lot of lost ground in literature and poetry, but not in Latin, since the Latin-speaking part of my brain atrophied long ago. I look forward to following your journey.
Thank you so much. I am glad you found my Substack as well! I think this MFA program at UST is one of the best (if not THE best) programs in formal verse. It is so easy to lose fluency in a language, but having learned it at all helps understand English on another level. Glad to see you here. I hope you like some of my other writing.
Thank you. I miss it too!!!!! You always inspired me to look at things in different ways. Glad I can still read your Substack.
Your post resonated with me. I, too, struggle with feeling that I've "wasted my life." Thanks for making me feel a little less alone.
Since you asked about whether we're doing community read-along programs, yes. My whole Substack is essentially premised on being a read-along. I've done Plato's Republic, and am focusing on the book of Deuteronomy this year.
Thank you so much for your comment. Your Substack sounds awesome. I will check it out. Learning together is learning better! ❤️ Z
I don't doubt you, Zina! You've got a good plan. (I don't know what an SESP or a PTO or an IEP are.) :-)
Thank you for this wonderful piece Zina. Your courage is inspiring me to be a more honest writer and I so appreciate that. I was going to write about national poetry month for my next article but this story has caused me to pivot and cover something a bit more personal. By the way, your bit about pursuing Latin in your adult life despite being told as a child women have no reason to learn it reminds me of one of my favorite fictional characters, Dagny, from Atlas Shrugged. Here's the line from Atlas Shrugged I thought of when I read your anecdote: “She was fifteen when it occurred to her for the first time that women did not run railroads and that people might object. To hell with that, she thought- and never worried about it again.”
Nice quote! It’s funny how road blocks and gatekeepers only succeed in creating the drive to pursue knowledge. And I am looking forward to your next post! ❤️ Z
I don't think we are made to learn by ourselves. I am only lately experiencing the joy of learning with others, after earning a B.A. in English (and Studio Arts) and an M.A. in English (emphasis writing)—where nobody discussed anything outside of class— and after I have read voraciously my whole life. But I am finally enjoying good conversations about literary works in a Well Read Moms group. The discussion during last Saturday's meeting went on for three hours and we could barely get ourselves to stop.
Well Read Mom is wonderful. I attended their panel at the CIC in Dallas, and I spoke quite a bit with Marcie. Unfortunately I am already in some heavy duty book clubs where the books often overlap with WRM. Much of my other time is spent learning special education and disability law and philosophy for my advocacy work. Also, I have my masters studies at the University of St. Thomas in Houston. It is… a bit much but it makes me happy. Especially my MFA studies. It is the most expensive thing I have done for myself thus far, but it has been one of the most rewarding and enriching. Gives me a break from raising my five kids.
I get a panicky feeling when I read about all the things you are involved in! It all sounds great. But take it easy. Look at me. I didn't get to do a lot of things when I was raising my kids by myself after a divorce that I am doing now. You can drive yourself crazy by taking on too much, even if everything is worth doing. Take the long view!
I have definitely stepped back. I put my SESP on hold, and I quit the PTO in January. I think I manage things fairly well. Just had an IEP meeting for one of my kids. It went well but I had to make so many points and document so many things. If ever things get bad I have no qualms about dropping activities. And Dr. Wilson at the MFA is kept in the loop. If things get to emergency levels with the kids he knows I will take a semester off. The long view, however, takes into consideration the value of having a Masters degree.
Thank you so much for sharing. There is nothing more comforting than the company of readers. Substack and the various reads I’m doing with fellow travelers absolutely lifts me up especially through the long, dark winter.
Kathleen, I am so happy you have found your people. As troubling as technology can be, if used with intentionality it is so powerful and a benefit to society. I appreciate your comment so much. May all of us learn together and from each other! ❤️ Zina
Zina, this essay means so much! Substack really has been a life boat for me during a time of isolation, as well. I'm honored to count you as part of my community.
Joshua, you have been one of the biggest blessing of Substack. Your friendship was one of the first developed out of all the “strangers” out there. You were the first to invite me to write a guest post. You were one of the first to recommend my Substack to people I didn’t know. Your generosity, intelligence, and diligence shine through your writing on this platform. Thank you. 🙏 If not for your encouragement I don’t know if I would have persisted.
That means a lot, Zina. I'm really glad we connected here -- and stay connected through our writing. Now back to prepping for Friday's read-along essay :)
Indeed!
Mary, you are a blessing. A great writer and great friend!
Thank you for sharing so well the backstory of your pursuit of knowledge. It seems your challenges have been transformed into motivation, and are bearing fruit. That is so awesome - I'm happy for you!
Gratefully, my dad was raised by women, so he was never bothered that my brain was analytical *and* creative. Parents do their best with the tools they have.
Thank you for opening my mind up to the existence of free study groups online! I didn't realize they were becoming more popular -- a hope that we can keep arts and culture education alive despite the patterns unfolding now in schools of all levels.
Oh, my dad had lots of issues I never really understood. He passed away, and I’ve forgiven him. I just wondered if I would have been happier and more successful if I were allowed to study what I wanted. My dad was my dad. Shrug. My educational journey continues to be non-typical.
You may be interested in a few Catholic specific study groups and book clubs. Albertus Magnus and Well Read Mom (you don’t have to be a mom). AM is technically free, but easier to get into classes if you pay. There is a not-too-bad fee for WRM.
Dangit!!! Your essay reminded me of something I forgot: yesterday was Shelfie Saturday! Hangonaminit I gotta grab my camera…
LOL! I will do a Shelfie Sunday myself. It’s kinda epic.
Zina, love this and it is one of the reasons I love this community. There is so much to learn here and while I do enjoy learning on my own, it is better with others who are on a similar journey. I signed up for the website you mentioned and I am receiving their emails now. I don't have the bandwidth at the moment to sign up for one of their courses but am hoping that after I retire from the Navy I will have some more time on my hands. I am also in the very beginning stages of thinking through and planning out a read-along of The Iliad and The Odyssey for next year. I am not an expert on either but sometimes we learn by teaching!
Matthew,
The Iliad and Odyssey project sounds great! And there are so many translations to choose from. I did a compare and contrast … now that I think of it most of it may be in my Drafts folder. I really highly recommend the Catherine Project, but I may have been particularly fortunate in what instructors and peer group I got. As always, learning in community can differ with cohort. You are such a wonderful reader and writer. Glad to know you through this Society of Perpetual Students on Substack. ❤️ Zina
You amaze me. I am glad you left that fire with your mind ….. it is a gift.
Peggy, you are amazing and lovely and more published than I. I miss our WAG group with Emily! ❤️ Zina
Thanks, Zina, for this encouraging post. I understand the frustration of trying to learn on one’s own. Indeed, that’s a big part of the life of a scholar. That’s why I appreciate what is going on in this space. The gatekeepers of the ivory tower are, indeed, merciless, though it’s really more of an ingrained system than any individual will that is responsible for the mercilessness, which makes it difficult to reform. I know this, frankly, as one of the “gatekeepers,” though a low-level one. I try to make up for this by telling my graduate students that intelligent people outside the academy will be interested in our work if we present it to them in an encouraging way: we don’t have to dumb it down or make compromises. Simon, Josh, you, and many others are proving this every day here. Well done. (Now if only I could demonstrate to the university that what I do here is more valuable than what I publish in academic journals, because people actually read it and respond to it.)
John, your Substack is one of my favorites, and I am so happy to have met you on this platform. Jay, Mary, Eleanor, Simon, David, Matthew, Joshua… I learn so much from all of you. My friend who is a university professor has similar frustrations with the higher education system. I think we are coming to a reckoning as a society with liberal arts programs downsizing or facing complete elimination. Your work here is valuable, but I wonder if it competes somehow with what our college system is turning into.
Yes, the slow read is too fast! It's one of the reasons why I have repeated it again this year. Great post!
Zina,
Replying to Simon as I am doing his Mantel read along. In a word, I love it. I read so many Substacks and books that inform my own Substack posting that I had to choose one book.
The book I know best and would love to discuss with others is Swann's Way. I'm not qualified to lead it on my own, but I may try to find someone who is.
David, I haven't read Proust but all 7 volumes are on my shelf and waiting to be opened. I hope to get to them in the next year or so but I think they may require some expert guidance. I am very excited to read them however, having heard so much good about them.